Bugzilla – Bug 4624
Add ability to distinguish tag TPE2 as Band or AlbumArtist
Last modified: 2011-04-07 12:10:32 UTC
I have some albums with multiple artists, but also tagged with ALBUMARTIST to keep the songs grouped together under that artist. In iTunes, these songs are split across all artists. I tried to fix this in iTunes by selecting Compilation=Yes for all songs. However, upon a rescan of Slimserver, the album has now moved into Various Artists. What's happened is that iTunes has stored an ITUNESCOMPILATION tag for each track, and Slimserver seems to prioritise this over ALBUMARTIST. Is there a way to prevent Slimserver from reading ITUNESCOMPILATION? I don't need any iTunes integration with Slimserver (i.e. I have disabled the iTunes plugin), so perhaps there could be a way to the scanner to ignore ITUNESCOMPILATION tags (eg. if the plugin is disabled?). Alternatively, perhaps ALBUMARTIST should override the ITUNESCOMPILATION tag, so the album is listed for the album artist rather than under Various Artists? Alternatively, is there some setting in iTunes to group the artists on albums together without requiring to set the ITUNESCOMPILATION tag (i.e. make ALBUMARTIST work)?
Philip, can you give examples of what exactly you have put in your Artist & Album Artist tags of the files in question?
As an example: I have an album "The Definitive Blues Brothers Collection", in which all tracks are by "The Blues Brothers", except for one, which is by "Cab Calloway". I set all tracks to have ALBUMARTIST="The Blues Brothers", and this works nicely in SlimServer, listing the album under the Blues Brothers artist and not as a compilation album. However, when I imported the folder into iTunes, it didn't recognise the ALBUMARTIST tag, so Cab Calloway wasn't grouped with the other songs on the album. I tried to set ALBUMARTIST in iTunes, but this doesn't seem to write to the ALBUMARTIST tag; instead it writes to BAND. I didn't really want BAND tags (Cab CAlloway isn't a "band"), so I set Compilation=Yes in iTunes for all songs on the album. This has the effect of setting a tag ITUNESCOMPILATION=1. However, faced with both ALBUMARTIST and ITUNESCOMPILATION tags, SlimServer seems to use ITUNESCOMPILATION and ignore ALBUMARTIST. I was thinking that it would be more correct for SlimServer to detect the ALBUMARTIST tag first to list the album as belonging to that artist, rather than detect it as a compilation album. So, whilst the main problem is that iTunes doesn't seem to handle ALBUMARTIST tags correctly and I have added a compilation tag to group the songs in iTunes, I believe that Slimserver should still group by ALBUMARTIST when a compilation flag exists.
Philip, just to make clear, you would like to have Slimserver ignore or have the option to ignore the COMPILATION tag when an ALBUMARTIST tag is present?
Yes, that seems a sensible option to include (ignore the ITUNESCOMPILATION tag). What would be ideal is for the scanner to ignore iTunes specific tags, such as ITUNESCOMPILATION, if the iTunes plugin is not installed/disabled.
Philip, keep in mind that iTunes uses the standard COMPILATION id3 frame TCMP and labels it ITUNESCOMPILATION. It is not a specific iTunes tag. More information can be found at http://www.id3.org/ Another thing to keep in mind is that iTunes uses the frame TPE2 as ALBUMARTIST when the standard for this frame is BAND. I assume Apple did this because there is no standard frame for ALBUMARTIST. Most unfortunate. When you use a program like mp3tag and add a non standard id3 tag such as ALBUMARTIST it creates a custom TXXX frame and labels it ALBUMARTIST to do so. This is how Slimserver is able to recognize the id3 ALBUMARTIST tag even though it is not a standard id3 frame.
Thanks for the explanation. I was a little confused with TCMP - in mp3tag for me it appears as COMPILATION, and I have been using this - seems to be detected by Slimserver. However, mp3tag documentation (http://mp3tag.de/en/help/main_tags.html) says that it should appear as ITUNESCOMPILATION. This explains a few issues I have been having with iTunes not detecting compilation tags - I assume my COMPILATION is actually storing a TXXX frame, but Slimserver still detects it? How should I be tagging files to store Album Artist information? Are you saying I should be using TPE2 (which is BAND in mp3tag), as this would also seem to be consistent with iTunes and WMP10 which call it Album Artist? If so, I can change all of my tags accordingly. It still seems appropriate to have an option for slimserver to have an option to not mark albums as compilations (TCMP or TXXX "COMPILATION") if an album artist (TPE2 or TXXX "ALBUMARTIST") is present, as I believe the reason for adding an album artist is to list the album as belonging to that album artist (not to appear as a various artist album) when slimserver setting "list albums by band" is selected.
(In reply to comment #6) > Thanks for the explanation. I was a little confused with TCMP - in mp3tag for > me it appears as COMPILATION, and I have been using this - seems to be detected > by Slimserver. However, mp3tag documentation > (http://mp3tag.de/en/help/main_tags.html) says that it should appear as > ITUNESCOMPILATION. This explains a few issues I have been having with iTunes > I assume my COMPILATION is actually storing a > TXXX frame, but Slimserver still detects it? Yes this is correct. Since the TXXX frame contained "COMPILATION" as the description Slimserver recognized it. The thing is to be careful that you don't have both a TCMP frame and a TXXX "COMPILATION" frame as the behavior would probably be unpredictable. > > How should I be tagging files to store Album Artist information? Are you > saying I should be using TPE2 (which is BAND in mp3tag), as this would also > seem to be consistent with iTunes and WMP10 which call it Album Artist? > > If so, I can change all of my tags accordingly. This is a tricky one. Since "ALBUMARTIST" and to a lesser extent "ALBUM ARTIST" are not part of the id3 spec some programs have decided to use the TPE2 frame which is actually the "BAND" tag in the id3 spec. One could also have both a TPE2 frame and a TXXX "BAND" frame leading to unpredictable behavior. > It still seems appropriate to have an option for slimserver to have an option > to not mark albums as compilations (TCMP or TXXX "COMPILATION") if an album > artist (TPE2 or TXXX "ALBUMARTIST") is present, as I believe the reason for > adding an album artist is to list the album as belonging to that album artist > (not to appear as a various artist album) when slimserver setting "list albums > by band" is selected. I don't think this is a desirable solution. For instance a file with a TCMP "COMPILATION" frame and a TPE2 "BAND" frame is proper tagging under the id3 spec and this solution would break that. I think the solution may lie with how to handle the TPE2 frame since some programs have decided to use it as "ALBUMARTIST" instead of its intended use as "BAND" Perhaps there could be a toggele in Slimserver to treat the TPE2 frame as "ALBUMARTIST" and a TXXX "BAND" frame as "BAND" What do you think?
> I don't think this is a desirable solution. For instance a file with a TCMP > "COMPILATION" frame and a TPE2 "BAND" frame is proper tagging under the id3 > spec and this solution would break that. > Okay then. It seemed to me that Slimserver settings openly indicates TPE2=BAND=ALBUMARTIST under Settings->Behaviour/Compilations. For my situation, if I set an ALBUMARTIST I never want it to appear as a compilation album - I think of ALBUMARTIST and COMPILATION as mutually exclusive. However, I can see that perhaps other people may want to use BAND to indicate a band and not as an ALBUMARTIST, and therefore may want to use both COMPILATION and BAND together. That's why I was suggesting an option for ALBUMARTIST to override COMPILATION. However, if iTunes uses TPE2 for representing album artist, then I can change to use this instead of TXXX (ALBUMARTIST), as I don't bother tagging band information. > I think the solution may lie with how to handle the TPE2 frame since some > programs have decided to use it as "ALBUMARTIST" instead of its intended use as > "BAND" Perhaps there could be a toggele in Slimserver to treat the TPE2 frame > as "ALBUMARTIST" and a TXXX "BAND" frame as "BAND" What do you think? > Not too bothered, as I don't bother to tag band information (eg. "Buddy Holly and the Crickets" could be tagged with ARITST="Buddy Holly" and BAND=Crickets, but I would put that as a single artist entry, or just Buddy Holly).
I am still confused ;-) I tried changing some of my tags from ALBUMARTIST (TXXX tag) to BAND (TPE2 tag). Slimserver just lists a "Band/Orchestra" item for the songs, and no "Album Artist". So, I still need the ALBUMARTIST (TXXX) tag in order for Slimserver to list the album under the album artist, otherwise the album only appears under the track artist. Do I therefore need to enter both ALBUMARTIST and BAND tags for Slimserver and iTunes to group songs by album artist? Slimserver will display both "Album artist" and "Band/Orchestra" if both tags are present. You said this would lead to unpredictable behaviour.
(In reply to comment #9) > I am still confused ;-) > > I tried changing some of my tags from ALBUMARTIST (TXXX tag) to BAND (TPE2 > tag). > > Slimserver just lists a "Band/Orchestra" item for the songs, and no "Album > Artist". > > So, I still need the ALBUMARTIST (TXXX) tag in order for Slimserver to list the > album under the album artist, otherwise the album only appears under the track > artist. I believe this is correct. This is why I thought a user option in Slimserver to treat the TPE2 frame as "ALBUMARTIST" and a TXXX "BAND" frame as "BAND" as a good solution. > Do I therefore need to enter both ALBUMARTIST and BAND tags for Slimserver and > iTunes to group songs by album artist? Slimserver will display both "Album > artist" and "Band/Orchestra" if both tags are present. You said this would > lead to unpredictable behaviour. I believe this is also correct. Of course you will end up with the same information in both ALBUMARTIST and BAND. The unpredictable behavior I was referring to is if you had both a TPE2 frame and a TXXX "BAND" tag not a TPE2 frame and a TXXX "ALBUMARTIST" tag.
I see what you mean now. I misread your previous post. Yes, an option to treat the TPE2 frame as "ALBUMARTIST" and a TXXX "BAND" frame as "BAND" sounds like a good idea.
Note to self: The TCMP frame COMPILATION tag IS NOT part of the id3 spec but is supported by Slimserver.
Updated summary and changing to unassigned for review.
*** Bug 6152 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Resolved in today's bug meeting: If the user selects "I use iTunes", then Squeezecenter should treat TPE2 as 'albumartist' OR if the song shows signs of having been ripped by iTunes. Dean, you left the bug meeting as we were discussing this one. Did you want to change the milestone for this bug as well?
i think there is a lot of crossover here with bug 8001. i should add that i do NOT use itunes but i DO want TPE2 treated as ALBUMARTIST in SC. thx to bug 8001 i can do that without saying i use itunes, (which obviously i don't). my question is, are the problems discussed in this bug all solved now by virtue of 8001?
why isn't this bug listed as a block on 8303, but is listed as depends on 8303? also where is the keyword? Phil, its interesting that you were for this, way before bug 8001. but what i am curious about now, is what issue you thik is still outstanding, if any? also, reading thru the bug, i am curious what you think about comp tags... should they trump albumartist tags or vice versa? should it be optional in either direction? should this be a pre or post scanner option? i am beginning to think that a lot of issues come back to this idea SC has of one "master" list. while i understand many people want only one list, i'd guess just as many people would list to browse via ANY tag... so in my case, i could browse via TPE1 or TPE2, and neither would impact the other. regardless, i wonder where you see this bug now? (fyi: itunes DOES use TPE2 as "Album Artist" now, but how it actually employs that tag in the app, i have no idea)
sorry, it is listed as a block on 8303, it just doesn't have the keyword.
I raised this before i fully understood what tags iTunes supported, and how compilation/album-artist tags worked. I think there were some issues with interaction between Album Artist and Compilations in the scanner when I raised this, but I'm happy with how SC works now, and think this bug can be closed. NB. iTunes "Part of a compilation" writes to a id3v2.3 frame called "TCMP", which is NON-STANDARD. I thought COMPILATION was supported as part of the standard at the time, but realised there is not provision in the v2.3 standard for any compilation tag, and that it was being stored as a custom tag instead. I like "BAND" to represent band information, as I have been tagging my collection for years in that way (following the standard), using TXXX ALBUMARTIST for Album Artist info. Just a thought - if SC were to support a custom TXXX BAND tag, I would be happy to transfer all my TPE2->TXXX BAND, and use TPE2 as BAND. It would also need to support TXXX BANDSORT, and TXXX ALBUMARTISTSORT would then need to be associated either TXXX ALBUMARTIST and/or TPE2.
Phil, what do you mean? >Just a thought - if SC were to support a custom TXXX BAND tag, I would be happy >to transfer all my TPE2->TXXX BAND, and use TPE2 as BAND. It would also need >to support TXXX BANDSORT, and TXXX ALBUMARTISTSORT would then need to be >associated either TXXX ALBUMARTIST and/or TPE2. are you saying you want to have the Band info twice? meaning, you would have the same data in TPE2 and in TXXX BAND? why? i'm not following either all these suggestions, and/or why you are making them?
I meant that if there was a custom TXXX BAND, people could use TPE2=ALBUMARTIST and still store band information. i.e. I use TPE2=BAND, and use TXXX ALBUMARTIST. If I were to switch to TPE2=ALBUMARTIST, I wouldn't have anywhere to store/retrieve band.
> I meant that if there was a custom TXXX BAND, people could use TPE2=ALBUMARTIST > and still store band information. are you sure that doesn't already work? I suspect it does.. you'd still want TXXX BANDSORT to work; that should be a one line fix analogous to my fix for bug 4584.
hmmm... the thing is, SC only sorts by TPE2 if TPE2 is "treated as album artist." if TPE2 is treated as band, you can't sort by it. you can get it included in the artist list if you tick the checkbox, but its just adding that field to the list. i guess bandsort would work for that...?, but as i said earlier in this thread, SC's obsession with only one master list at any time makes things difficult. in a music server, i expect to be able to change my listing/sorting/denoting/displaying criteria at any time and get the results i want without screwing with options or rescanning. so my point is that i'm not sure bandsort does much if you can't sort by band as it is. i agree that TXXX BAND and TXXX BANDSORT should be supported however, esp if one day current limitations no longer apply.
If you Browse Artists, or Browse Albums, sorted by artist, and include Band/Orchestra in the list, then bands will appear in the list, and are sorted by Band content. Hence a BANDSORT could be used to do sorting correctly.
right, i agree, its just that you can't sort and denote by band only, suppressing artist or album artist if u want. if you could, (which serves as an alt solution for 8001), you would have some interesting different possibilities, (both tagging and app wise) and it would make TXXX BANDSORT much more important.
i think this bug should be closed as the title of it was resolved by bug 8001 if there are any remaining issues in the bug, new bugs should be filed imo. btw, i did file this bug which is related: https://bugs-archive.lyrion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16706
AndyG, since you're closing old deadweight bugs, this one should be closed too as far as i can tell.