Anoop - don't know whether we should still have a shortcut at all.

Matt? What's your design decision? Feel free to close this as wontfix. IMHO it's so simple to create a shortcut pointing to the web UI we don't really need to have one on the desktop.

This was changed from 7.3.3 to 7.4.0 to double-clicking the desktop icon opens the Control Panel.

Currently though, the icon does nothing.  It should open the Control Panel.

James makes a fair point that maybe the icon would be better named to something that suggests what it actually does.

Not a bug. Not 7.4.x. We could probably even close it as WONTFIX, as this is a design decision we took deliberately. But as I've not been happy with it myself I'll leave this open ;-)

It would be nice to still have the option of the web interface opening automatically when starting the Squeezebox server as in version 7.3.3.

this is crazy.  stop trying to decide for the users whats best!  let the USER DECIDE!

1. the installer should ask what shortcuts you want (or don't).
2. slimtray starts automatically anyway, why point a desktop shortcut to it?
3. a lot of people WANT A DESKTOP SHORTCUT!!!
4. there is no need for a desktop shortcut to start slimtray or control panel.

on what basis were these decisions on high made?  sensimilla?

Mike - Decisions are made based a combination of business value and user input. If we ignore business value and spend time on things that don't make $$, the product will die and NOTHING gets fixed. If you really want something fixed, you are encouraged to provide the fix.

Pat,

with all due respect, that response does not address the issue.

the desktop icon USED to work in a sensible manner.  now it doesn't.

can NO ONE from logitech explain WHY the change was made to the current way?

what is the point of a desktop icon that starts slimtray when slimtray starts automatically?

tell me what the "business value" of this change was?  it was a deliberate change, just like double clicking slimtray to open control panel as default (and ONLY choice) which i also find stupid, was.

i hear lots of people complaining about these changes.  i hear no one championing them.  that is clear user feedback and i would think the right "business decision" is then clear, is it not?

There are two issues being discusses here:

 * What the desktop icon does when the server is OFF

 * What the desktop icon does when the server is already ON

Nothing has changed in terms of the icon starting the server.  It has always started the server (if OFF) and it still does.

The question is what happens next?

We made a design change here.  The next thing that happens is the Control Panel opens; either after the server startup or directly from double-clicking the icon.  Yes, it used to open the Web UI.  Now it opens the CP.

The business decision here is how to best focus our efforts and what user interfaces we want to emphasize.  The Control Panel offers all the functionality the average user will need.  After quite a bit of user testing and analysis, we went with our current design choice.  

If you'd prefer an icon on the desktop that opens the web UI, creating a shortcut that points to http://localhost:9000 is a solid and easy solution, and is what I'd recommend.

Dan,

thx for the response.  allow me to respond:

1. yes, the desktop icon will start SBS if it is off.  it will also load slimtray if slimtray is not loaded.  i have no beef with that.

2. the desktop icon however, is now USELESS if Slimtray/SBS is already started, (which is the most common use case i'd imagine).  it does NOTHING.  it does NOT open control panel, and it doesn't open the webUI.  even when it starts SBS, its almost un-noticeable it did so!

imo, if SBS is already started, the desktop icon should open the webUI!!!

thats what it has ALWAYS done.  thats what it no longer does.

its confusing to users who aren't computer gods.  my dad uses the webUI exclusively, and trying to teach him he now needs to relearn things is unacceptable!  there is no good reason for this change!  trying to tell him to look down in the corner for the tiny slimtray icon, right click, and then click "open web control" as opposed to "open control panel," (which btw are needlessly confusingly similar sounding), may sound trivial to you, but its herculean to me!

asking me to manually edit his shortcut everytime he upgrades is ridiculous.

---relatedly---

another change covered by another bug is about the action that happens if you doubleclick the slimtray icon.

it USED to always open the webUI.  now it always opens control panel.

this should be optional.  in other words, the USER should be able to decide what happens when slimtray is double-clicked.  having said that, i firmly believe the default should be open webUI, but at least give me the setting so i can choose.

when you said this:

"The Control Panel offers all the functionality the average user will need."

i simply don't understand how you could say that.  you can't play a single note from control panel.  it offers all the SERVER SETTINGS *most* users need, no argument there, but it offers NONE of the *functionality* ANY user needs.

regardless, its a red herring.  i'm not complaining about control panel, i'm complaining that it opens when slimtray is double-clicked.

what is the point of de-emphasising the webUI anyway, when thats all the person has to use?  (my dad ONLY has a SBR).  even if he had a SBC, why try to force your anti-webUI view?

I agree with Mike.  I don't like the way the Desktop icon works.

1.  If the server is running, clicking on the Icon does nothing.

2.  If the tray icon and server is not running, there is no easy way to get to the web user interface.  You can click the desktop icon which then starts the tray icon, the server, AND opens the control panel.  You then have to either right click on the tray icon to get to the web interface and close the control panel.  Alternatively, you could click on the "Advanced" tab on the control panel and then click on the web interface and then close the control panel.  The third option is to make a shortcut to the web interface which you would click on after waiting for the server to boot up and then close the control panel since it opens if the tray icon is not present.  There is no way to get to the webui without multiple clicks if you don't always have the server running in the background.  Not everybody always wants tray icons or programs running in the background all the time.

I'm begging you to please offer an options so that 7.4 will still work the same way as 7.3 with regards to the desktop option.

This is now configurable in 7.5 through the control panel (see bug 14599)

Michael,

you have the wrong bug.

this bug is NOT about the systray icon, (thx again for that fix btw) but rather the desktop icon the installer places on the desktop at the time of installation.

that has nothing to do with the control panel, and so this bug should remain open.

fyi i think you meant bug 14674

Oops, sorry: correct bug, but wrong answer. Doubleclicking that icon does  
indeed not respect that setting. Will fix it.

 == Auto-comment from SVN commit #29738 to the slim repo by michael ==
 == https://svn.slimdevices.com/slim?view=revision&revision=29738 ==

Fixed Bug: 14776
Description: doubleclicking the desktop icon should respect the DefaultToWebUI property too

Thanks Mike!

Michael,

i have downloaded and installed 29738

i have it configured to open the "web control" (webui) when doubleclicking the systray icon.  in fact, it was already that way prior to 29738.

i let 29738 create a new desktop icon/shortcut.  doubleclicking it does NOT open the webui.  in fact, i see no difference at all in the behavior of the shortcut.

do you?

 == Auto-comment from SVN commit #29742 to the slim repo by michael ==
 == https://svn.slimdevices.com/slim?view=revision&revision=29742 ==

Bug: 14776
Description: try harder to get the UI if server isn't fully started yet

Hmm... it seemed to be working every now and then, but not reliably. I  
added some code to make sure it's trying again in case the server wasn't  
fully started yet.

Michael-- What is the default behavior of this setting now?

> Michael-- What is the default behavior of this setting now?

Control Panel - as designed by Matt Weldon.

are we all talking about the same thing???

the desktop shortcut does not do anything if SBS is already started.  it only loads systray and sbs if not already loaded.

i have never seen this shortcut load control panel.

i have seen it, prior to all these recent changes, open the webui.  but currently, as of 29738, it doesn't open webui or CP.

i would like to see it start the webui again, as it always did, for years.

> are we all talking about the same thing???

Yes we are. Read my previous comment and give today's build another try.

i am no longer at my parents, so i tried this (29758) on my vista 32bit laptop.

the systray fix still works, but i see NO difference at all in the desktop shortcut.  it doesn't do anything if systray/sbs is already started.

this is what i see in the shortcut via properties:

"C:\Program Files\Squeezebox\SqueezeTray.exe" --start

i don't see how that would indicate to sbs to do anything other tha that.  Michael, how is this fix supposed to work?

> shortcut.  it doesn't do anything if systray/sbs is already started.

Is the web UI accessible if you launched it manually? It won't be opened  
by that link unless it's ready (to prevent the user being shown an error  
message).

> "C:\Program Files\Squeezebox\SqueezeTray.exe" --start
>
> i don't see how that would indicate to sbs to do anything other tha that.
> Michael, how is this fix supposed to work?

We could call the parameter --yada. It's the code which decides what to do  
with it, not the parameter name. See Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, "A  
rose by any other name would smell as sweet" :-)

(In reply to comment #25)
> > shortcut.  it doesn't do anything if systray/sbs is already started.
> Is the web UI accessible if you launched it manually? It won't be opened  
> by that link unless it's ready (to prevent the user being shown an error  
> message).

what do you mean, "launched it manually" precisely?  

afaict, the webui works just fine, and i can launch it via systray, either by doubleclicking systray or the systray context menu.  the desktop shortcut isn't not working b/c i am "rushing it" if thats what you mean...?  it doesn't work 10mins or 10hours after SBS starts.

> > "C:\Program Files\Squeezebox\SqueezeTray.exe" --start
> >
> > i don't see how that would indicate to sbs to do anything other tha that.
> > Michael, how is this fix supposed to work?
> We could call the parameter --yada. It's the code which decides what to do  
> with it, not the parameter name. See Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, "A  
> rose by any other name would smell as sweet" :-)

i know --start is a parameter.  what i don't understand is what you are doing to try to implement the feature?  how does it work?  or even, how do you intend it to be?

from what i gather from your posts, it should launch either CP or webui, and what it should def not do is nothing at all.  is that correct?  b/c for me, it does nothing.  

is it working for you???

Michael-- FYI, I see the behavior you are aiming for:

1. When server is off, the desktop shortcut starts the server and opens the CP
2. When server is on, the shortcut open the CP

Dan,

are you able to configure CP systray to open webui instead and does that then work when using the shortcut?

i can't get either to work.  what ver 7.5 are you using?

> i can't get either to work.  what ver 7.5 are you using?

That's really odd. Are you sure you're running the latest version? What  
build information do you see if you check the SqueezeTray.exe's file  
properties?

(In reply to comment #29)
> > i can't get either to work.  what ver 7.5 are you using?
> That's really odd. Are you sure you're running the latest version? What  
> build information do you see if you check the SqueezeTray.exe's file  
> properties?

i just downloaded and installed 29768 as reported by control panel and at the website.  checking SQtray.exe says the same.

still no dice.  

vista ultimate, 32 bit.

perhaps you guys have it in admin mode or something?  i think my profile is admin, i made no other changes.

(In reply to comment #30)
> i just downloaded and installed 29768 as reported by control panel and at the
> website.  
>
> still no dice.  
> 
> vista ultimate, 32 bit.
> 
> perhaps you guys have it in admin mode or something?  i think my profile is
> admin, i made no other changes.

Mike--  I would sooner guess that you have some lingering file that remains from a previous install/build and it's causing a weird side-effect.  Can you try uninstalling SB Server, then delete any 'Squeezebox' folders you find here:

 * .\Program Files\Squeezebox
 * .\Program Files\Squeezecenter
 * .\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Squeezebox
 * .\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Squeezecenter

Lastly, re-install the latest build of 7.5 and see if there's any change.

some interesting things...

first, i uninstalled everything, including prefs and log files when it asked me, and the folders you specified above were NOT there; and i even ran crap cleaner.

however, when i installed it again, somehow it "knew" my last scan stats and where my music/playlist was located!  (this is a laptop i use to troubleshoot SBS stuff like this, not my main SBS.  it only has a few cds on it, and not in "my music" but in a folder directly on my desktop)

surely this is a bug of some kind, it should have been a clean install, yes?

---

secondly, it did NOT work...  until i tried something a bit different.  i right clicked the shortcut, and then clicked "run as administrator" and then i got the vista UAC prompt, clicked continue on that, and voila!  ...NOW it worked.

but obviously, that needs fixed.  even if someone knew to run the shortcut as admin, no one wants to see a UAC prompt.  and my profile is an admin profile, this kind of screwy thing seems to be part of vista and prob win7 too.

(michael, this gets back to the point i always make about the devs not living in windows)

so now that we have a handle on it, what do you guys think?

anyone?  anyone?  bueller?

Mike - I've tested this on a XP, Vista and a Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit machine, and it did work as expected. Don't know what to say, really.

QA - can you reproduce Mike's issue?

i can confirm it works on XP as expected.  thx!

HOWEVER

i now have vista and a brand new install of Win7 32 bit ultimate, and in BOTH CASES what i said above applies.

there must be something different about your setup. my win7 install is brand new as of yesterday, with default settings.  perhaps you admin'd everything or turned off UAC??  but if i don't right click the shortcut and say "run as administrator" it doesn't work.  if i do, it does.

I can't easily reproduce this on Win 7 Enterprise or Vista.  Is the server installed in the default place?  in C:\Program Files\Squeezebox\?

yes, but perhaps you are testing embedded and not the trunk?

i just tried embedded with vista and its working properly.  last trunk install i had it didn't.

haven't tested 7 w/embedded yet.  what happens when you use trunk?

> i just tried embedded with vista and its working properly.  last trunk  
> install i had it didn't.

There's no difference between the two re. tray icon behaviour:

pc-00047:workspace mh$ diff -q 7.5/platforms/win32/SqueezeTray.pl 7.5embedded/platforms/win32/SqueezeTray.pl
pc-00047:workspace mh$ 

It's the same code. Please re-test the trunk version.

maybe it is the same code, idk, but that doesn't change the facts.

i just uninstalled embedded, which works as expected, and dl'd and installed the "trunk" ver 29888 and its still exactly as i described above, (on vista, i didn't retest win7, as i'm sure that'll also act the same).

i don't mind helping, but i think you guys should test it first, b4 asking me to, after i already had once; fair, yes?

btw, assuming the code is the same, that would indicate trunks paradigm trips the OS in a way embedded doesn't, but that could be off base.  it is a very perplexing issue, i'll be interested to see what the cause is.

finally, this other issue seems present too:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73976

shall i keep holding my breath?  ;)

i thought you guys would have a response?  i narrowed it down for you!  can you reproduce what i did or what?

i just tried r29966 trunk and the shortcut still doesn't work.

Moving P3 and lower bugs to next release target

this bug should not be assigned to me and i no longer have vista.

i don't know if any of it still applies or is true anymore or not, or what vers may be affected, etc...

but i will say that windows UAC does strange things.  sometimes its better to NOT tell the shortcuts to run as admin, as that can CAUSE a UAC prompt.

anyway, i always want the ability to be able to open the SBS webui via shortcut or systray icon, so i hope that is maintained.

Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to re-open when you see the issue again.