I think if you want something like this you should write a plugin.  SlimServer is not designed to work with anything but our own hardware, and adding something like this would be complex and difficult to test.  Unless you want to send me a free PS3. ;)

I also have to ask why you want to listen to your music through a noisy console that requires a TV, when you already have an SB3?

(In reply to comment #1)
> I think if you want something like this you should write a plugin.  SlimServer
> is not designed to work with anything but our own hardware, and adding
> something like this would be complex and difficult to test.  Unless you want to
> send me a free PS3. ;)

Heh. I'd love to send you a free PS3. When I win the lottery you'll be at the top of my list. :)

Put seriously, you already have a DLNA client it seems, Slimserver itself!

I tested Linux DLNA server called "ushare" and it shows up in Slimserver as a browseable source.

The reasons I would like to see DLNA server support in Slimserver is:

* I have an extensive amount of playlists defined in Slimserver
* Slimserver already allows browsing by Albums, Artists, Genres, Years, Playlists, Music Folder, etc
* Slimserver already has the feature to decode on server and send WAV to the client (PS3 would need that)

(In reply to comment #2)
> I also have to ask why you want to listen to your music through a noisy console
> that requires a TV, when you already have an SB3?

I purchased two SB3s. But I have more than two rooms in my house and the room where my PS3 has no SB3.

The PS3 can do some impressive 1920x1080 visualizations on my big screen.

Also, the PS3 can use "background music" while slideshowing my JPEG collection or playing games (with next firmware update).

(In reply to comment #1)
> I think if you want something like this you should write a plugin.  SlimServer
> is not designed to work with anything but our own hardware, and adding
> something like this would be complex and difficult to test.  Unless you want to
> send me a free PS3. ;)

Andy, at the risk of putting words in your mouth, are you saying if your were to have access to a PS3 you would be willing to add DLNA functionality to SlimServer? I think this could be arranged. ;)

Heh I was mostly joking, actually.  I think we'd first need to decide if something like this belongs in SlimServer at all.  Dean, your thoughts?

So are we talking about Slimserver being aware of DLNA servers?

No, the opposite: we already have support for playing audio from UPnP servers, which is a valid thing for SlimServer to support.  But I am not sure if serving audio files to 3rd party UPnP clients is something that SlimServer should do, as it is not related to our hardware at all.

(In reply to comment #8)
> No, the opposite: we already have support for playing audio from UPnP servers,
> which is a valid thing for SlimServer to support.  But I am not sure if serving
> audio files to 3rd party UPnP clients is something that SlimServer should do,
> as it is not related to our hardware at all.

SlimServer is for sure related to your hardware.

Last year I told my co-worker about SlimServer and he installed it and used it for several months to stream audio to various software players. Then he bought a SB3.

SlimServer helps to sell your hardware.

Someone who is using SlimServer (for whatever reason) is *more* likely to buy your hardware then if they are using some other DLNA/UPnP audio server.

Marking this bug as targeted for 'future' pending additional interest and votes.

(In reply to comment #1)
> I think if you want something like this you should write a plugin.  SlimServer
> is not designed to work with anything but our own hardware, and adding
> something like this would be complex and difficult to test.  Unless you want to
> send me a free PS3. ;)
> 

I would second the request for DLNA media server support in SlimServer. The argument that Slimserver should only be used for SB is really very short sighted. Our houses will soon have other media servers in addition to those like SB that only provide music (I already have both a SB and PS3). Making users run various servers to supply each of these is of course possible, but fairly pointless and may in the somewhat longer run turn against you. Why buy something that requires its own proprietary software when the rest of the market can supply gadgets that conform to a standard? I certainly would not want that to happen to SB!

Luuk Houwen
Germany

I would like to third the request for DLNA support.  I have a SB2 and have been running Slimserver under Gentoo Linux for a few years.  I'm so happy with SS that I'm looking to do the same with video, and looking at a DLNA capable player.  Because of this, I'm going to get a DLNA compliant NAS (and by the way, looks like DLNA might be going into FreeNAS).

I have been a huge supporter of SB/SS over the years.  I setup the server at my parent's house on their iMac (good reason for SS to be cross platform, they'd never handle Linux or XP).  They got used to the java SB and eventually bought a SB3.  In addition, I got a co-worker hooked on the Linux version of slimserver, and he uses it to stream his music collection from home and liked it so much he's buying a SB.

Anyway, it looks like boat-load of DLNA capable NAS storage and players are just starting to hit the market.  I love my SB, I love how it sounds and looks, even thinking about getting a Transporter in the future.  But I don't know if I'm willing to run server software forever (updating to new versions can be less than fun too).  Those DLNA devices sure take maintenance work off my hands.  I'd hate to see SS and my SB become dust collectors someday, but honestly I can see this happening once I get a few DLNA devices.

I hope my perspective helps convince someone to work on this for SS/SB.  Thanks again for all the great work.

Dana Dominiak
www.webfootgames.com

This request is not about building a DLNA client into the firmware, it is about building DLNA server support into SlimServer so generic clients like PS3, DVD players, etc, can browse/play from a SlimServer library.  SlimServer (or SqueezeNetwork) will always be a requirement for our hardware.

(In reply to comment #8)
> No, the opposite: we already have support for playing audio from UPnP servers,
> which is a valid thing for SlimServer to support.  But I am not sure if serving
> audio files to 3rd party UPnP clients is something that SlimServer should do,
> as it is not related to our hardware at all.

Valid point for a year ago. It is understendable for a business model when you charge for device and give away Slimserver for free. But now that you have Squeezebox™ Controller it may become best DLNA controller on the market. With it I should already be able to control a PC with SLIMP3 emulator. Then I would be able to control natively a Denon 4308. So then I would have 3 choices:

1. buy just Squeezebox™ Controller to control PC and Denon
2. buy Squeezebox Duet and have additional zone in kitchen with Denon being in living room.
3. wait till someone makes a decent  DLNA controller

As of today I havealso 3 choices: 

1. buy just Squeezebox™ Controller to control PC which has to be hooked to Denon leaving DLNA renderer capability unused and also obliging to have PC on all the time. This does notmake sense as there are plenty of chice for remote media controllers for PC for much cheaper.
2. buy Squeezebox Duet and hook it to Denon. But I hate to waste money on redundant stuff.
3. wait till someone makes a decent  DLNA controller.

That is I am ready to pull the trigger for the first option. Think how many customers buy your hardware because the capacity of Slimserver is locked on your harware. Then compare how many like me refrain from doing it.

It is like Skype which made me discover internet telephony. But then I rapidly switched to flexibility and openness of SIP. I bought Skype credit maybe once (€10) but then I dropped much more cash on a Sipura 3000. I am also a happy user of two SIP accounts for about two years.

After all it is all over again. Compare PC to mac. You may win if you think of your product as extension to DLNA offering better functionality when all the three components belong to slimdevices (controller/server/renderer) but still functional basically with any DLNA capable device.

This seems like a no brainer to me. I have a squeezebox in my lounge connected to my stereo and run slimserver on my linux server with all my music. In my family room I have ps3 that is begging to have music served. I cannot put another device in the cabinet. Looking at the options for dlna servers supporting flac on linux is not great, plus I do not want more software to be updating - I tried putting together some software but got traped in dependancy hell.
Slimserver is the 'lost leader' to sell squeezeboxes. The more it can do the more likely people will install it. They will install it to serve music and then the is a chance of converting that install into a sale of a device.

i'm def for this idea.  i wonder if it would support tivo as well, or rather if tivo supports DLNA.

but i have a SBC and i think its drop dead amazing.  given that, i agree with the previous poster, SC should support DLNA b/c the SBC is so amazing and is the obvious product tie in.

yes please! It sould be great to access SS from the PS3 as a DLNA 

Actually the PS3 sucks as a media server. 

It doesn't support streaming audio that well. The people over at mediatomb have given up trying to stream mp3s to it, although others have been successful: sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2036519&forum_id=440751 
It doesn't natively support vorbis or flac, and never will I imagine.

It's really picky about the types of video it will play. mp4 video streaming used to work but now stutters painfully after a recent firmware upgrade. It's taken me weeks to find a video format newer than mpeg2 that will consistently stream well. I'm just hoping that the next firmware upgrade doesn't screw things up some more.  

And because it's proprietary and "closed code", there's nothing you can do but complain. Good luck with that.

I don't think slimdevices should waste their time it.

(In reply to comment #18)
> Actually the PS3 sucks as a media server. 
> It doesn't support streaming audio that well. The people over at mediatomb have
> given up trying to stream mp3s to it, although others have been successful:
> sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2036519&forum_id=440751 
> It doesn't natively support vorbis or flac, and never will I imagine.

The fact that it sucks (as a client) and does not support flac is the whole point! With SlimServer/SqueezeCenter as a DLNA Server it could stream to the PS3 in a suitable format regardless of the original format.

For pure simplicities sake I would also urge an update - like other users I have an SB3 in one room and a PS3 in another room. The last thing I want is to have 2 lots of software doing effectively the same thing. 

SB3 is a cracking device - and I guess all I am doing is unashamedly grovelling for another reason to love it and it's associated software even more.... and doesn't it make sense to lead the way in this area? You are meeting the need for a network player - capture a whole new market of PS3 buyers who are actively looking for a server for their PS3's (a quick google for DLNA PS3 will show you the demand) because once they have it set up for their PS3 then adding a SqueezeBox in other rooms is surely a natural progression?

Cheers

i would like to remind the people who are "anti" implementing this feature that the PS3 is NOT the only DLNA device out there.

i would also reiterate the point that the SBC makes the whole anti argument moot.  SC should support DLNA, the SBC is why, and those with DLNA devices will highly regard slim as a result, which can only mean more sales.

more options, more adoptions.

I am casting my vote to making SC a DLNA compliant _server_

Right now the SC is the firs media server that I can run on linux that I actually like; it's feature rich and it intelligently (and automatically!) figured out that my meta-data-less brain-damaged WAV collection was stored in a author:album:track hierarchy so now I can search by author without having to navigate the whole tree every time!!!

PS3 is brain-damaged too at various levels but I have one and I want to stream music to it.  If I can use the SC for everything then I am hooked.

If the plan is not to support DLNA then I would look into other option because:
1. I don't want to categorize my collection 50 times and have to browse things differently from different clients and maintain separate DB's
2. I don't enjoy maintaining software.  Consolidating everything in one place gets top priority.
3. I appreciate the added value of SC and SB when paired wrt to convenience (I can listen to anything in the world basically) but I want to be able to do the same from any device.

I am just here to say that if you plan to support DLNA I am in, otherwise I will (reluctantly) look elsewhere.

btw, I am thinking that Santa, if he really is the man as many claim, should bring a SB Boom under the tree this year, so basically you have until (early) December to make up your mind ;)

Michele

I'd like to add that DLNA/UPNP server capabilities have been on my wishlist for a long time.  I used to think that it is a "branding" issue not to have it.

However, I do believe that the urgency for this support is there.
I have 2 SB3's but I also have a PS3 and a Denon 3808CI which I would like to be able to stream to.

Generally, I think that this feature would make SC, the Squeezebox and Logitech brands that more appealing to a wider audience and help sell more hardware.
I think there are some people that do look for that DLNA/UPNP logo when getting network media devices.

I have been messing with Mediatomb, ushare, TVersity, etc but as as someone else mentioned before it's a great inconvenience to have multiple databases, structures, configurations, etc.

In addition, if SC was able to stream/transcode 24/96 files to PS3 that would at least take care of the SB3 DAC limitation.

According to the roadmap at http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SoftwareRoadmap

One of the "main goals of the SqueezeCenter project" is:

"Significant differentiating or parity features - Continue to make sure that SqueezeCenter and Slim Devices hardware are the best options out there."

Adding UPnP Server Support would seem to fit this goal. Also, who is more likely to become a future customer? A person using SqueezeCenter or person using Mediatomb, TVersity, uShare, FUPPES or one of the other open source or commercial UPnP servers out there?

I have the following audio playing devices:
SB2 (Qty 2)
SB3 (Qty 2)
Boom
PS3 (UPnP client)
Denon AVR-3808CI (UPnP client)
DirectTV HR20 HD satellite receiver  (UPnP client, yes seriously)

I get to run SqueezeCenter for my Slimdevice products (which I like). Then I have to run a UPNP server for my PS3 and Denon. I have to sync playlists, update, and maintain both server products. It is a giant pain.

It would be fantastic to have a SC7 UPnP plugin (I'd happily pay for it as an option) but I can see one area that might require some consideration: if it also had the option to perform the same trick that Linn have used with their UPnP 'tweak' (to upload the selected tracks as a playlist to the UPnP renderer) it would avoid the standard UPnP shortfall which is that gaps are heard between tracks. This isn't noticeable on many albums, but on albums where tracks flow seamlessly into each other, it’s a disaster (this can be heard if you try using Cidero to control a Linn DS).

Just a thought but it would enable it to operate these products extremely well. I'm not sure why there's no campaign to add this to the UPnP standard; it would seem a pretty obvious enhancement but maybe I'm missing something.
Bri 

Sorry, there's an error in my first paragraph; 'it' should really be 'Jive' changing the meaning to the below (I hit the commit too early):

…if Jive Jive also had the option to perform the same trick that Linn have used with their UPnP controller 'tweak' (to upload the selected tracks as a playlist to the UPnP renderer) it might suffer from the standard UPnP/controller shortfall which is that gaps are heard between tracks.

It would be great to have the flexibility to control SC7 from UPnP control points as well as other devices from Jive; the more convergence takes place the more fun it is for everyone. 

Does anyone know if the DLNA specs are available anywhere?  They seem to be non-public which is a shame, but there are several open source projects that seem to have implemented it somehow.

(In reply to comment #27)
> Does anyone know if the DLNA specs are available anywhere?  They seem to be
> non-public which is a shame, but there are several open source projects that
> seem to have implemented it somehow.
> 

A cursory Google search came up with these links:

http://webstore.iec.ch/webstore/webstore.nsf/artnum/038283

http://webstore.iec.ch/webstore/webstore.nsf/artnum/038284

Information wants to be free. :(

I can see the argument that you don't want to get SqueezeCenter working with PS3s or Wiis or Tivos or whatever because then someone could get your free software and use it on other hardware and you'd never make any money.  But I want to second an earlier sentiment and experience: I used Slimserver for several years solely and only to stream music from home to work.  For a long time I just used the steam.mp3, then later I started using Softsqueeze.  When I bought my first house I finally bought a Squeezebox.  Then I got another one for the downstairs.  Last weekend I bought a Boom for the bedroom.  So we're talking someone who used the free software for years now owning three Squeezeboxen.  

Maybe my results are atypical, but I can completely picture someone installing SqueezeCenter just to use it as a DLNA music server and later buying hardware.

Not only do I vote for this bug, but I strongly urge Logitech to do whatever is required to have SqueezeCenter serve audio to Wiis and Tivos and iPhones as well as the DLNA-compatible PS3 and XBox360. But DLNA is a great first step.

I have plans to add a DLNA server as an external plugin, but I am lacking one key thing: time.

thats cool Andy, but with 29 votes in an obscure to customers anyway bug tracker, one wonders why Slim isn't looking to make this a core component that slim develops?

imagine all the exposure slim would get from people who currently are using twonkey or other pay DLNA software...  exposure should not be undervalued, and the more valuable teh software is, i am confident the more hardware buys it will eventually generate.

*** Bug 15833 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

An experimental implementation is now in 7.6!

(In reply to comment #34)
> An experimental implementation is now in 7.6!

Andy, I can't see where. My Squeezebox Server can't be detected by a upnp aware player (like Windows Media Player on Windos 7). 

I found the way for my SB Server to be a UPNP Client, and access other UPNP Server content; but no way for it to be a UPNP Server.

Maybe this needs to be activated somewhere ?

that post is old.  they took it out of 7.6

get it in the, imo, unstable 7.7 LMS

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Nightly_Builds

(In reply to comment #36)
> that post is old.  they took it out of 7.6
> 
> get it in the, imo, unstable 7.7 LMS
> 
> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Nightly_Builds

Thanks Mike for your quick reply, I could have searched for it for a long time.

I guess I'll have to wait. And this bug report should be reopened meanwhile.

(In reply to comment #34)
> An experimental implementation is now in 7.6!

So this seems to work in 7.7.1, since my PS3 can see the LMS.  I can even browse Artists, Genres, etc.  However, I can't see any of my actual music files!  When I go into an album, the PS3 says "There are no titles."  This is the case for any of my 500+ albums.  All of my music files are Apple Lossless (ALAC/m4a), and they play just fine through the SB3, but the PS3 can't seem to find any of the music.

Any idea whether this is a bug in the plugin, or something else?

Thanks. =)

Hi

I've just been updating my friends system (ReadyNAS Duo, 7.7.1 and a Logitech Duet). Though the ReadyNAS Duo is pretty slow when running 7.7.1, the UPnP server feature is working well. They have about 26,000 FLAC files in their NAS and I've just been playing them using the 7.7.1 UPnP server and a Linn DS music player (using Linn's Kinsky app for the iPad as a control point).

Assuming the files are not DRM protected, I guess it must be something to do with the PS3, as it's all working fine with my Linn DS's.

Bri

u need to verify that the PS3 plays alac/m4a.  i suspect it does not.

put a mp3 in there, does it see/play that?

(In reply to comment #40)
> u need to verify that the PS3 plays alac/m4a.  i suspect it does not.
> 
> put a mp3 in there, does it see/play that?

I have been able to get flac to play on winamp through DLNA. On the PS3 it appears that the file is not being transcoded. I configured the transcoder to change to mp3 but all that happens is the song plays instantly and it moves to the next song and spins through the rest of the tracks in the album.

Somehow or other the transcoding does not appear to work.