Bugzilla – Bug 13971
When player is powered off using clock screen saver pressing the knob once displays titlebar + status bar
Last modified: 2009-10-05 14:30:49 UTC
Not sure of the intention, however, pressing the knob to display an empty titlebar and status bar seems odd. We could be using a center press for other shortcuts and display modes... Seen on v.7.4 r7453
Cc'ing Weldon for comment.
I see this on desktop SP all the time but didn't realize it really happened on the device. Just reproduced it here. This is a P1 bug IMO. Tom, any idea why framework widgets would come to screen in this state? Tom/Weldon, what do you think should be the behavior when pressing the knob or otherwise interacting with a soft-powered "off" Baby? Should it wake it up? Do nothing? Should the behavior be different when a clock is selected as the when off screensaver instead of the default screen blank screensaver?
25 cents...We have a dedicated power button on all our devices. Pressing anything other than the power button does nothing is a safe move. We can always design in something later. If we didn't have the power button it would be a different story. One thing to consider is that for a lot of users "soft" and "hard" power states don't really register. Off is off.
If we do that then I'd argue we need to remove all "When Off" screensavers except "Blank". It feels like the device is broken if I see a clock, hit some non-power buttons, and nothing at all happens. This is the first SP-based device that has a soft power button. I don't think the behavior is well defined yet at all. I also might add that the our legacy devices (Boom, SB3, Transporter) do not have their buttons disabled when "soft" power is off. Press play on any of these devices when off and the music starts.
I left in the statusbar appearing on the off screensaver (only when the off screensaver isn't the blank SS), otherwise there would be no way to know that the device is in soft-off. I'd prefer we either a) show a power button indicator in some way (maybe like how it works on fab4), or b) make it so that when you choose something other than "blank" that ANY input powers the device back "soft" on. Switching the off screensaver from blank ss to something else is an advanced feature, but a useful one. It gives a user two non-playing SS's to work with. So I might have a picture ss as my "when stopped" ss, but a clock as my power off. Or I might have clock for both. But not letting the user know in some way that the device is "soft off" makes it frustrating for the user (or the user's housemates) when re-interfacing with the device some time after it has been soft powered. Note: play and presets still work in soft power off, just like ip3k
Thanks Tom- a or b would be great options IMO. I'd personally vote for b, but either one. What we are currently doing is not a reasonable UI solution though.
Ben- you raise a number of good points. Please treatment my feedback as any other "beta tester." The term "Off" and including screensavers other than clock's is problematic. Perhaps changing the terminology would be helpful. If the device is powered off image slideshows and Now Playing make no sense. What is the difference between "None" and "Screen off" in this context? These should be the same thing, no? What is the scenario when using the alarm feature? The user is asking themselves, "When my alarm is set does it work when the devices is powered off." There needs to be feedback to the user when the device is "Off" and when it is "powered down", on "stand-by, etc. This is extremely important for devices with a battery.
None = no screensaver kicks in at all Blank = screen goes dark I think Weldon is best to answer the alarm question, but my gut say that the alarm should go off if it's set, no matter whether soft power is off or on. It all depends on how "off" soft power off should be. I agree with Tom that Screen Off screensaver is an advanced but useful feature. For this reason I think slideshow is in fact valid as a Screen Off screensaver. On my bedside Fab4 I have transparent digital as my "when stopped" and black digital as my "when off" SS, which I also find very useful. I'd like to really give Tom's two suggestions in comment#5 serious consideration. IMO the best behavior is one of those two.
I agree this is an advanced feature, however, simply including all options does not guarantee an intiutive and positive user experience. Again having the below options for "When Off" is confusing and I strongly encourage removing from the UI: 1. None -having no screensaver when the device is "off" means you see the exact same thing as when it is on. 2. Now Playing - if the device is off then no music even in "soft" power mode should be playing. I tested this and it is the current behavior. Pure and simple this is poor user interaction design! The alarm scenario was simply to illustrate a use case where the term "Off" is problematic or miss-leading. Tom's suggestion b. is a great way of communicating that the device is in "soft" power mode. Extending this to revising language used in Settings would be a complete solution IMHO.
So, the bug meeting consensus is that this should be fixed by just allowing any button to 'wake' the unit from its sleep. Matt Weldon is on the CC list, so hopefully he can comment if there is something we are not considering.
Reassigning to Matt for confirmation.
It seems like most of the confusion stems from a confusion between "soft off" and "hard off." How about this: - we rename soft "off" to "standby" (it's more accurate). The screensaver "When off" options would be called "On standby" or "When on standby." - hard off is hard off. No screensavers, alarms, etc. It should truly be a real "off" (I think it behaves this way now?) - default "when stopped" screensaver would be digital clock; default "standby" screensaver would be digital clock (black). Thus, if using default settings (i.e. most users), it's clear what mode you're in. - while in standby, if the "blank" screensaver is not selected, "ANY input powers the device back "soft" on" (Tom's suggestion) - this would keep our behavior consistent with how Boom etc. works. (I'm guessing a single knob press merely "wakes up" the device but doesn't perform any action?) - get rid of the titlebar popup that currently exists in standby.
Matt, I'm with you with everything, but it sounds like you are suggesting we no longer use the blank screensaver as the default "soft off" SS. This is a bit surprising since it the blank screensaver also turns off the LCD, which is very nice visually at night, and uses less power.
Matt - FWIW if you are going to update the text, please keep in mind we already have the notion of "Sleep" and this terminology is public (Boom, Controller, etc.). In addition, I cannot imagine the necessity to have options for "soft" power that look like the device while in normal power states. See comment #9.
> > 1. None -having no screensaver when the device is "off" means you see the exact > same thing as when it is on. > > 2. Now Playing - if the device is off then no music even in "soft" power mode > should be playing. I tested this and it is the current behavior. Pure and > simple this is poor user interaction design! > Agree with Noah, these two options should be removed. ESPECIALLY number 2.
Also totally fine with using "sleep" instead of "standby." So, menu item would be "When sleeping." for the screensaver options.
(In reply to comment #13) > Matt, I'm with you with everything, but it sounds like you are suggesting we no > longer use the blank screensaver as the default "soft off" SS. Yes, this is what I'm suggesting. Mainly because treating it as an "off" state is inaccurate/confusing. If we make the above changes, what we're left with is a "sleep" state and a (true) "off" state. This is much closer to typical "gadget" conventions, clock radios, etc. I think users will feel that this paradigm just makes more sense generally. So if you think about this as a "sleep" state rather than a true "off" state, and if you consider that this device will be very commonly used as a "bedside" device (the entire hardware design is based on this assumption, including the device size, price, battery option and inclusion of the dedicated alarm button), it makes sense that the nighttime default would be to display a (less-bright) clock. It also encourages/reinforces the device's usefulness, by default, as an alarm clock. I honestly feel this is the default users would find most useful/intuitive. Perhaps in addition to the "black" clock, we can have the brightness of the device be dimmed a bit by default.
If no music is playing, Baby goes to a (default) clock screensaver. Why is that not good enough? Right now, in softpower off, it can be woken by hitting power, play or presets. I think it makes more sense to be woken either by only the power button or by any button, but I am OK with this for launch.
== Auto-comment from SVN commit #7616 to the jive repo by tom == == https://svn.slimdevices.com/jive?view=revision&revision=7616 == Bug: 13971 +1 - support modeExclusions so a particular SS can elect not to appear a a choice for a particular mode - NP SS and "None" SS don't appear as choices for "when off"
I have done what I consider the low hanging fruit and addressed the biggest blocker issues: a) "when off" choice doesn't offer NP or "None" b) When soft off, rather than have the status bar strangely appear, any SS other than BlankSS will disengage on any input. For BlankSS, it's behavior remains the same (only power, play, and presets soft power on the device), which is consistent with ip3k behavior. Various other options have been spoken of, that I feel veer quite a bit from the current design, in terms of functionality and work effort. I suggest if we feel they are truly needed, please make new bugs for them. Also, bear in mind that we are past the SLT time for baby PLD.
== Auto-comment from SVN commit #7617 to the jive repo by tom == == https://svn.slimdevices.com/jive?view=revision&revision=7617 == Bug: 13971 +1 - support modeExclusions so a particular SS can elect not to appear a a choice for a particular mode - NP SS and "None" SS don't appear as choices for "when off"
This bug has been marked as fixed in the 7.4.0 release version of SqueezeBox Server! * SqueezeCenter: 28672 * Squeezebox 2 and 3: 130 * Transporter: 80 * Receiver: 65 * Boom: 50 * Controller: 7790 * Radio: 7790 Please see the Release Notes for all the details: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Release_Notes If you haven't already, please download and install the new version from http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/download-squeezebox-server.html If you are still experiencing this problem, feel free to reopen the bug with your new comments and we'll have another look.